How rapidly is Ozzie Guillen’s situation deteriorating with the White Sox?
Two weeks ago, a source with knowledge of Guillen’s thinking estimated that the manager was 95 percent certain to return to the White Sox next season.
Over the weekend, the source dropped the odds to 50-50. And on Thursday, he reduced them further, to 10 percent.
The White Sox have not acted on Guillen’s desire for a contract extension. Guillen, meanwhile, was sharply critical of his players after a 6-5 loss to the Tigers in 10 innings on Wednesday night, saying he hasn’t seen “fight.” …
Rosenthal thinks the ‘trade to the Marlins’ would be the obvious solution.
Stark @ ESPN:
Who will be managing the White Sox next season? We tossed that question at a baseball source who is tight with team chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, and got this succinct reply: “Ozzie Guillen.”
The same source also said, with zero equivocation, that if the Marlins think they can wait this out and then scoop Guillen off the unemployment line this winter, they’d better re-think. Unless the folks in Florida want to trade a big-time player to the South Side, the source said, the White Sox won’t make any move to resolve Guillen’s future until after the Marlins have hired a manager.
Seems like the Sox want to make others think Guillen isn’t going anywhere so they have more leverage in any negotiations that take place. I’m not confident it will work. There is also this nugget:
White Sox officials have been telling people in the game they need to cut payroll next year after going over budget this season. And they also have five starters under contract for next year, even without Buehrle.
So an executive of one team who spoke with the White Sox brass says the only way he sees them making room for Buehrle is if he’s willing to “be creative” about his next contract. AND the club would have to be able to trade one of its current starters — most likely Gavin Floyd. Can all that happen? Of course. But it’s still a lot of hoops for Buehrle and his team to jump through.
I think Buehrle will be “creative.” Maybe a 2-3 year offer would be enough. Sign him Jerry!
Other White Sox links:
WSCR AM 670:
An extension for White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen does not appear to be on the table and it’s looking more and more like the team will have a new manager next season, FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal said on The Mully and Hanley Show Tuesday.
“There is a point of critical mass that this team is reaching, and I would expect, I’m not saying this any more than speculatively, but I would expect that Ozzie would be gone,” Rosenthal said.
The FOX Sports baseball reporter says that the chances of Guillen returning to the South Side next season have diminished in the last couple of weeks.
Audio at the link.
Rosenthal thinks it might be best for Ozzie and the Sox to separate and start over again. J.J. is thinking the same. And Fangraphs’ Chris Cwik gives us his thoughts on the subject.
UPDATE: More Ozzie:
“I feel for the White Sox,” he said. “Maybe if I go someplace else, I just have a ‘job’ and I will just do my ‘job.’ But with the White Sox, it’s different. I grew up in this organization. If I managed somewhere else, I would have the responsibility to go in with the best intentions, and I’ll still win. But this is a different thing, a different feeling. Sometimes I stop and say ‘Nah, I won’t [talk about managing elsewhere] because I might kill Jerry [Reinsdorf’s] heart. I say a lot of things, but I love this organization. It’s always going to be in my heart. Will it always be on my mind? We’ll see.”
“If Jerry doesn’t think I’m the right guy to run this ballclub, he won’t have any problem with me at all … at all,” Guillen said. “He can count on that. A lot of people think that if Ozzie leaves here he will have a press conference on Michigan Ave. and blast the White Sox. Nah. That won’t do me any good. Why?
“First of all, I live in Chicago. I want to walk to walk the streets of Chicago with my head up and not regret saying something I shouldn’t say. I’ll just leave it like that. Either way is fine with me.”
Schouwen @ CST:
The frustration stemming from the shortage of production from Adam Dunn, Alex Rios and Gordon Beckham recently reached a boiling point between general manager Ken Williams and hitting coach Greg Walker.
Walker took issue with Williams’ comments about Beckham’s swing, and after he and Williams exchanged heated words in the tunnel leading to the Sox clubhouse at U.S. Cellular Field, Williams told Walker to clean out his locker, a source said.
When chairman Jerry Reinsdorf was made aware of what happened, things were smoothed over.
Williams had said he liked the swing Beckham had at college. Walker said as long as Beckham keeps working on his swing, he’s OK with it. The odds that Brett Ballantini’s prediction of big changes after the season is over comes true seem to increase everyday.
Scott Merkin has Ozzie Guillen’s comments:
“One thing I want to make clear, I don’t think I’m going to be back here for a one-year contract, and I don’t know what to do next year,” said Guillen during Tuesday’s pregame media session. “Eight years with this organization, I’m guessing I do a pretty good job. No, not me, I think the players did it for me, and I think we deserve more than that. But I will have another contract somewhere, doing something in baseball.
“If [White Sox chairman] Jerry [Reinsdorf] wants me back, I’m more than happy to be back. If he’s not, nothing’s going to change. Obviously, I’m going to be sad, because I’d leave the town and the team I love.”
What does Kenny Williams have to say?
“Winning takes care of a lot of things. I might even get an extension if we win,” said Williams. “I have no desire to enter into discussions about these types of things and make anything definitive, because it takes away from what’s happening on the field. If I’m asked that question one more time, I’m going to throw up.
“I’ve got to sit down with Jerry at the end of the season. At this point in time, we’re an underachieving club. So that means players, coaches, the manager and myself, we’re all under review. This is professional sports.
“Am I telling anybody anything you don’t know? But I’ve also said from the very beginning that all I want is the focus to be on the field and I would hope whenever the door is shown to us, maybe we walk out that door together. Everyone has an expiration date.”
So, will you ask the Sox for an extension Ozzie?
The 47-year-old former White Sox player said he has not had discussions on the matter with chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, and said that he isn’t prepared to knock on his door and discuss things in the next few days.”
After all this bad year, the last thing (Reinsdorf) wants to do is to talk to his manager about a new contract,” Guillen said. “I would be embarrassed to talk to him. I’d say, ‘Hey, I want a contract.’ The first think he can say is, ‘You want a new contract? Look at where you are right now.’ I don’t want to take that chance yet.”
Ideally, Guillen would like the matter resolved before he leaves on a vacation to Spain. He is scheduled to leave two days after the White Sox’s seasons ends, whether the year concludes Sept. 28, or the team makes the postseason.
This thing with Ozzie is getting tiresome. Shut up and try to win a freaking game Ozzie.
Brett Ballantini has a good post up on the whole situation:
“There is a sad, sad story unfolding on the South Side, one that, barring a strong September and a stirring run into the postseason, will change the Chicago White Sox as we’ve known them for the last eight seasons.” …
Other White Sox links:
they both won’t stick around:
Guillen … agreed with Williams that he wouldn’t be nice enough to stick around for weeks after getting fired.
“Yeah, if [chairman] Jerry [Reinsdorf] fires me, I’m going golfing,’’ Williams said. “See you later. If you guys want to talk to me by phone, fine. But I’m out of here.”
Rosenthal @ MLB Buzz:
The White Sox do not figure to become outright sellers, not when they’re only 3 1/2 games out of first place in the AL Central. But owner Jerry Reinsdorf wants to trim payroll, according to a major-league source.
So, while the White Sox aren’t about to dust off their dreaded “white flag,” Williams could seek to make deals that lower the payroll while keeping the team competitive for a post-season run.
The Sox went “all-in” this season, increasing their Opening Day payroll to a club-record $127.7 million, the fifth-highest in the majors. However, the team ranks only 19th in home attendance, and their average is down more than 2,000 from a year ago, dropping from 27,091 to 24,647.
Those numbers hint at financial pressure, and the White Sox possibly could move two players – right-hander Edwin Jackson ($8.35 million) and right fielder Carlos Quentin ($5.05 million) without greatly compromising their chances. …
Other White Sox trade links:
UPDATE: Kenny’s answer to Rosenthal’s report:
“We should just get to the Trade Deadline and where we are, what we do, what we may do, all these questions will be answered,” Williams said. “And let’s go from there. We’ll see how we do this week.”When asked if there were any untouchables on his roster, Williams smiled and reiterated, “Let’s see how we do this week.”
Merkin @ CWS:
“If [White Sox chairman] Jerry [Reinsdorf] and Kenny had their way, it would always be pitching,” Laumann said. “I don’t necessarily disagree with that. You also need guys to catch and throw across the field and score some runs.” … “We will deal from the depth of the Draft, which looks like it’s in the college pitching, and that’s a good thing for us,” Laumann said. “Or if we feel like there’s one position player that stands out as an impact guy, we can possibly get him at 47 and feel confident about the next two or three college arms.”
Other White Sox links: James has fun with arbitrary dates, Sergio Santos hasn’t changed, A.J. Pierzynski is balancing his hands, Don Cooper says the 6-man rotation will stick around for a while, and Josh Phegley has good day at the plate and says he always goes after the first available fastball he sees.
Fangraphs (Jack Moore) ranks the entire White Sox organization 14th:
When it comes to the product on the field, the White Sox continue to be above average, as they have throughout much of the Kenny Williams Era. Occasionally, they produce great teams (the 2005 World Series team) and duds (2007′s 72-90 clunker). However, the best bet for a Kenny Williams’ White Sox team is competency as opposed to greatness or mediocrity – his teams have won an average of 85 games per season since he took the reins prior to the 2001 season.
That was a pretty good article but the evaluation of the Jake Peavy trade stuck me as premature. As I have said before I didn’t like the salary Kenny took on but I don’t have a problem with the players he gave up. JJ looked at the Peavy trade in his blog and he didn’t have a problem either. If only Kenny could have forced San Diego to eat some salary…
“We were going to try to rebuild, because we just didn’t feel we could count on the attendance supporting the level we had to get to spend to get better to beat Minnesota. So that’s where we started out,” Reinsdorf said, referring to their 2010 attendance figure — 2,194,378, the lowest since 2004. “But what we didn’t want to do was just lower the payroll, which would have been easy, without doing it in a way that gave us hope for the future. Which meant the players that we were going to have to let go were going to have to bring something back for us as we build for the future.”
Free agents Paul Konerko and A.J. Pierzynski would have yielded two Draft picks after being offered arbitration and signing elsewhere, but even first-round picks never are certainties.
“Then, as we looked at the rest of the players that we could move, without getting into particulars, it didn’t look like we could get enough back, so all we would end up doing was having a worse team with a low payroll,” Reinsdorf said. “We would make money, but we wouldn’t be building for the future.
“I didn’t mind taking a step back, because we’ve done it before, but I didn’t want to take a step back without feeling really good that that step back was going to help us going forward. We just could not see where the players we would have remaining were going to bring us the talent we needed to get better in 2012.
Sounds like no GM would offer good talent for the White Sox players.
Brent Ballantini has more. Here’s Reinsdorf on the Ozzie to the Marlins “trade”:
“There wasn’t going to be a trade,” he said. “The Marlins approached us about wanting to talk to Ozzie. OK. We couldn’t trade Ozzie—he has a contract to manage the White Sox. [If he asked] we could let him out of his contract—I love Ozzie, but if Ozzie didn’t want to be here, I would consider letting him out of his contract. But not for nothing.”
With the understanding that talks would only move forward at a cost, Reinsdorf tapped into his excellent negotiating skills and turned up the heat on South Florida.
“I said to the Marlins, ‘If you want to talk to him, we have to agree on what we get if he decides to leave,’” Reinsdorf said. “We couldn’t agree on that. If we had been able to agree, Ozzie probably still wouldn’t have left. We couldn’t have traded him—and we would have tried to keep him. I would have gone to Ozzie and said, ‘OK, the Marlins want to talk to you and we’ve given them permission to talk to you, but I hope to God you don’t leave.’ It would have been his decision, not our decision.”